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About MO Driver

Source: microsoft.public.virtualserver
Sent: 02/24/2005
From: "TACO" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Can Virtaul Server User SCSI MO Driver?

Post Reply | This is Spam! | Mark as Spam

Related Messages

Re: About MO Driver

Sent: 02/23/2005
From: Steve Jain <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:23:47 +0800, "TACO" <(email address - cut out)>
wrote:

Virtual Server cannot access external SCSI devices, only the devices
it emulates.

--
Steve Jain, Virtual Machine MVP
Website: http://www.essjae.com
"This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use."

Show quoted text

>Can Virtaul Server User SCSI MO Driver?
>

Re: About MO Driver

Sent: 04/19/2005
From: "Steve Radich \(BitShop, Inc.\)" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

You may want to read
http://www.aspdeveloper.net/tiki-index.php?page=VirtualServerSCSIDevices

On there I talk about why you can't see SCSI devices and talk a little about
how iSCSI can perhaps help you see them.

Steve Radich - http://www.aspdeveloper.net
BitShop, Inc. - http://www.bitshop.com - Colocation, Managed Servers,
ASP.Net Development
"TACO" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> Can Virtaul Server User SCSI MO Driver?
>
>

Re: About MO Driver

Sent: 04/19/2005
From: Paul Adare <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>, in the
microsoft.public.virtualserver news group, Steve Radich (BitShop, Inc.)
<(email address - cut out)> says...

There are a couple of fairly significant technical errors in that entry.

1. Emulation and virtualization are not the same thing. All of the
hardware in a guest is emulated with the exception of the CPU. VPC and
VS virtualize the host's processor. If you look at a guest running on a
host with an AMD CPU, you'll see an AMD CPU in the guest. If you look at
a guest running on a host with an Intel CPU, you'll see an Intel CPU in
the guest.
2. Emulation and virtualization are not interchangeable.

--
Paul Adare
MVP - Windows - Virtual Machine
http://www.identit.ca/blogs/paul/
Scientists were excited this week at having isolated a brief sound which
occurred immediately before the Big Bang.
Apparently, the sound was, "uh oh".

Show quoted text

> You may want to read
> http://www.aspdeveloper.net/tiki-index.php?page=VirtualServerSCSIDevices
>
> On there I talk about why you can't see SCSI devices and talk a little about
> how iSCSI can perhaps help you see them.

Re: About MO Driver

Sent: 04/19/2005
From: "Steve Radich \(BitShop, Inc.\)" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Thanks, where I had virtualize I should have clarified to mean I was trying
to convey to emulate in Virtual Server.

As to the CPU - I guess I wrongly assumed that they emulated the cpu.
However I'd be curious to see if someone from Microsoft responds with any
more details of if they are emulating the cpu in software or not - The CPU
has some capabilities to multitask / trap access, but not much capability to
run that multi-layered (i.e. the guest os). There have been several articles
lately talking about CPUs coming in the future that assist in the
virtualization, but those aren't really here today. i.e. the lower level
operations of the CPU have to be emulated somewhere, or the actual machine
languaged changed before being passed to the cpu - hence I would call it
emulating still I think.

However the goal of the FAQ is to explain this to the "Average" Virtual
Server user, and the average one really isn't going to understand the
difference - nor should (s)he need to.

Steve Radich - http://www.aspdeveloper.net - Virtual Server FAQ
BitShop, Inc. - http://www.bitshop.com - Managed Servers, Colocation,
ASP.Net Development

"Paul Adare" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> In article <(email address - cut out)>, in the
> microsoft.public.virtualserver news group, Steve Radich (BitShop, Inc.)
> <(email address - cut out)> says...
>
>> You may want to read
>> http://www.aspdeveloper.net/tiki-index.php?page=VirtualServerSCSIDevices
>>
>> On there I talk about why you can't see SCSI devices and talk a little
>> about
>> how iSCSI can perhaps help you see them.
>
> There are a couple of fairly significant technical errors in that entry.
>
> 1. Emulation and virtualization are not the same thing. All of the
> hardware in a guest is emulated with the exception of the CPU. VPC and
> VS virtualize the host's processor. If you look at a guest running on a
> host with an AMD CPU, you'll see an AMD CPU in the guest. If you look at
> a guest running on a host with an Intel CPU, you'll see an Intel CPU in
> the guest.
> 2. Emulation and virtualization are not interchangeable.
>
> --
> Paul Adare
> MVP - Windows - Virtual Machine
> http://www.identit.ca/blogs/paul/
> Scientists were excited this week at having isolated a brief sound which
> occurred immediately before the Big Bang.
> Apparently, the sound was, "uh oh".

Re: About MO Driver

Sent: 04/19/2005
From: Paul Adare <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>, in the
microsoft.public.virtualserver news group, Steve Radich (BitShop, Inc.)
<(email address - cut out)> says...

They do not, as I said, emulate the CPU. It is virtualized, which is why
the guest will display the same CPU as the host.

So technical inaccuracies are ok for the average user? I would think
that shouldn't be the case. What is the use of any kind of explanation
of the technology if it is incorrect? The difference between emulated
and virtualized hardware is an important concept for all who want to
understand how VS and VPC work.

--
Paul Adare
MVP - Windows - Virtual Machine
http://www.identit.ca/blogs/paul/
Scientists were excited this week at having isolated a brief sound which
occurred immediately before the Big Bang.
Apparently, the sound was, "uh oh".

Show quoted text

> Thanks, where I had virtualize I should have clarified to mean I was trying
> to convey to emulate in Virtual Server.
>
> As to the CPU - I guess I wrongly assumed that they emulated the cpu.
> However I'd be curious to see if someone from Microsoft responds with any
> more details of if they are emulating the cpu in software or not
>
> However the goal of the FAQ is to explain this to the "Average" Virtual
> Server user, and the average one really isn't going to understand the
> difference - nor should (s)he need to.

Re: About MO Driver

Sent: 04/19/2005
From: "Steve Radich \(BitShop, Inc.\)" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

I think you should go research the facts on this, especially before stating
things as fact and saying I'm wrong. However I don't want to get into a
flame war - A newsgroup isn't the place, and google will forever index our
names with this. It's not particularly good to do that usually :-) This kind
of topic would make for an interesting round table discussion, but not
newsgroup argument.

Today you can't virtualize an x86 platform fully. You can virtualize MOST,
i.e. user mode (PL3) but not PL0 / kernel level of the CPU.

There's dozens, if not hundreds, of articles lately talking about AMD and
Intel working on solutions to this - If it was already virtualized fully,
and not emulated, or worked around in software (i.e. EMULATING what would
happen at PL0, perhaps by replacing the code before letting it run on the
chip) then Intel and AMD wouldn't be racing to solve this. Since that has to
be emulated I'll stick to calling it emulating.

I do partially agree with you, it's not like by emulating I mean emulating
the ENTIRE chip. Of course if you have a simple instruction that can run on
the chip you can run it, you wouldn't say to add 1+1 I change to code to
x-1=1 to "emulate" adding. However you can't do things that result in PL0
going to the CPU - That would result in the host OS failing until Intel and
AMD solve this with (at least) another PL.

You can read more about this at
http://www.intel.com/technology/computing/vptech/index.htm if you want to.

So in conclusion they virtualize the CPU for PL 3 definately, 1 and 2 maybe,
and 0 they can't so they emulate. Now, for the average end user trying to
migrate his NT 4 box to virtual server how do you put all this in very plain
english explaining the difference between PL 0, 1, 2, 3 and what is emulated
versus virtualized? A FAQ isn't supposed to be for a programmer / someone
that understands CPU at these levels, and the goal of all of the posts will
be to put things in plain English for people running Virtual Server, not for
chip designers to help write the specs for Intel :-)

Steve Radich - http://www.aspdeveloper.net - Virtual Server FAQ
BitShop, Inc. - http://www.bitshop.com - Managed Servers, Colocation,
ASP.Net Development

"Paul Adare" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> In article <(email address - cut out)>, in the
> microsoft.public.virtualserver news group, Steve Radich (BitShop, Inc.)
> <(email address - cut out)> says...
>
>> Thanks, where I had virtualize I should have clarified to mean I was
>> trying
>> to convey to emulate in Virtual Server.
>>
>> As to the CPU - I guess I wrongly assumed that they emulated the cpu.
>> However I'd be curious to see if someone from Microsoft responds with any
>> more details of if they are emulating the cpu in software or not
>
> They do not, as I said, emulate the CPU. It is virtualized, which is why
> the guest will display the same CPU as the host.
>
>>
>> However the goal of the FAQ is to explain this to the "Average" Virtual
>> Server user, and the average one really isn't going to understand the
>> difference - nor should (s)he need to.
>
> So technical inaccuracies are ok for the average user? I would think
> that shouldn't be the case. What is the use of any kind of explanation
> of the technology if it is incorrect? The difference between emulated
> and virtualized hardware is an important concept for all who want to
> understand how VS and VPC work.
>
>
> --
> Paul Adare
> MVP - Windows - Virtual Machine
> http://www.identit.ca/blogs/paul/
> Scientists were excited this week at having isolated a brief sound which
> occurred immediately before the Big Bang.
> Apparently, the sound was, "uh oh".

Re: About MO Driver

Sent: 04/19/2005
From: Paul Adare <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>, in the
microsoft.public.virtualserver news group, Steve Radich (BitShop, Inc.)
<(email address - cut out)> says...

I have and your use of the terminology is wrong.

Wow, someone disagrees with you and you assume this is a flame war?

Ahh, ok, thanks for explaining to me how the Internet works. You might
want to look into the X-No-archive header.

--
Paul Adare
MVP - Windows - Virtual Machine
http://www.identit.ca/blogs/paul/
Scientists were excited this week at having isolated a brief sound which
occurred immediately before the Big Bang.
Apparently, the sound was, "uh oh".

Show quoted text

> I think you should go research the facts on this, especially before stating
> things as fact and saying I'm wrong.
> However I don't want to get into a
> flame war - A newsgroup isn't the place,
> and google will forever index our
> names with this. It's not particularly good to do that usually :-)

Re: About MO Driver

Sent: 04/19/2005
From: Steve Jain <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:51:19 -0400, "Steve Radich \(BitShop, Inc.\)"
<(email address - cut out)> wrote:

VPC-Win and Virtual Server virtualize the CPU. Only VPC-Mac emulates
the CPU.

If you want it from MS, see Ben Armstrong's blog entry here:
http://blogs.msdn.com/virtual_pc_guy/archive/2004/10/18/243821.aspx

In which he states "The other reason - is because in a confusing move
"Virtual PC 2004" uses virtualization - while "Virtual PC 7 for
Macintosh" uses emulation, and every now and then when I am reading
Slashdot and there is some fool saying "Virtual PC (for WindowS) is
slow because it uses emulation" - and I feel like flaming them to a
crisp and saying "That is the Mac product! You have obviously never
used the Windows product and have no idea what you are talking
about!". But I have not done this yet (have to watch your Karma you
know)."

--
Cheers,
Steve Jain, Virtual Machine MVP
Website: http://www.essjae.com
"This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use.
I am not am employee of Microsoft."

Show quoted text

>As to the CPU - I guess I wrongly assumed that they emulated the cpu.
>However I'd be curious to see if someone from Microsoft responds with any
>more details of if they are emulating the cpu in software or not - The CPU
>has some capabilities to multitask / trap access, but not much capability to
>run that multi-layered (i.e. the guest os). There have been several articles
>lately talking about CPUs coming in the future that assist in the
>virtualization, but those aren't really here today. i.e. the lower level
>operations of the CPU have to be emulated somewhere, or the actual machine
>languaged changed before being passed to the cpu - hence I would call it
>emulating still I think.
>

RE: About MO Driver

Sent: 04/28/2008
From: "lpru zljsumn"<(email address - cut out)>
Message:

etnqfbsdp fixudkwab sykraoixj qfxwm ybrmgx xogteil fangbhc

Posted via http://www.VirtualServerFaq.com - Brought to you by Business Information Technology Shop - http://www.bitshop.com

Show quoted text

> Can Virtaul Server User SCSI MO Driver?
>

Post Reply | This is Spam! | Mark as Spam

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