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Add Solution

Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Source: microsoft.public.mac.virtualpc
Sent: 04/28/2007
From: TenThousandThings <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Does my VPC 7 XP license qualify me for any sort upgrade pricing for
Vista Home Premium?

I also have an old Connectix VPC with Windows 2000.

Post Reply | This is Spam! | Mark as Spam

Related Messages

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 04/28/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com>
Message:

Yes. The copy of XP bundled with VPC7 is an "OEM" copy and a Vista upgrade
edition installer would detect that you are running genuine Windows and
allow installation to proceed. You can upgrade any OEM copy of Windows to a
retail copy.

Whether or not you can perform an upgrade in place (meaning retaining your
installed apps) depends on which version of XP you are running now. If it
is XP Home then you can do an upgrade in place to Vista Home Premium.
However, if you are running XP Pro then you will have to do a Custom Install
of VHP, which means that your files, settings, and apps would not carry
over. In that case you would need to reinstall them after Vista is
installed.

(This is not peculiar to Vista. You would not be able to do an upgrade in
place if going from Windows 2000 to XP Home either, for example. You cannot
do an upgrade in place from any business edition to any home edition of
Windows. However, that does not mean you wouldn't qualify for upgrade
edition pricing.)

In your situation I would seriously consider buying a full edition of Vista
and not an upgrade edition. That way you can move Vista to a different
computer without having to have a qualifying earlier edition on the new
computer. With an upgrade edition you will always run into the problem of
having to have Windows 2000 or XP installed on it first and your VPC7
bundled copy of XP is not transferrable.

One other point to consider is that Vista Home Premium may not work
satisfactorily on VPC7. Vista is a slow performer in VPC7 and VHP works
much better with a memory allocation of 1GB. In any case you would not see
any of the Vista Aero special effects. The emulated video card does not
support them.

Vista is working very well on the Intel Macs, but that is because Vista can
be installed natively with the Boot Camp Assistant 1.2.

--
Colin Barnhorst
MVP Virtual Machine
"TenThousandThings" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> Does my VPC 7 XP license qualify me for any sort upgrade pricing for
> Vista Home Premium?
>
> I also have an old Connectix VPC with Windows 2000.
>

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 04/28/2007
From: TenThousandThings <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Thanks! That's very clear and it answers my question even though I
really didn't give you enough information. I should have also said
that I just upgraded to an Intel Mac, and I'll be leaving VPC behind.
If I understand you correctly, I can't use an upgrade edition since it
would still be tied to the VPC machine.

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 04/28/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com>
Message:

Correct. In order to install a Vista upgrade edition the previous version
of Windows must be installed on the computer first. This is a change from
earlier versions of Windows that only used a shiny media check to verify
ownership of a previous version of Windows.

The only way to install the bundled version of XP that comes with VPC7 is to
first install VPC7 and it does not run on an Intel Mac. That is the
showstopper in your situation. It is also true that the bundled XP is only
licensed to be used in VPC.

Boot Camp requires use of a full edition of XP or Vista anyway.

--
Colin Barnhorst
MVP Virtual Machine
"TenThousandThings" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> Thanks! That's very clear and it answers my question even though I
> really didn't give you enough information. I should have also said
> that I just upgraded to an Intel Mac, and I'll be leaving VPC behind.
> If I understand you correctly, I can't use an upgrade edition since it
> would still be tied to the VPC machine.
>
>

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 04/30/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

A Vista upgrade edition requires that Windows 2000, XP, or another edition
of Vista already be installed. On an Intel Mac one would need to install an
XP full edition first. Then a Vista upgrade edition should work. The
problem the OP has is that his copy of XP is not a retail full edition but
the bundled edition that comes with VPC7. Disc 2 is not a standard XP
installation disc and cannot boot the computer. Therefore it would not
work.

"who" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> Correct. In order to install a Vista upgrade edition the previous
>> version
>> of Windows must be installed on the computer first. This is a change
>> from
>> earlier versions of Windows that only used a shiny media check to verify
>> ownership of a previous version of Windows.
>>
>> The only way to install the bundled version of XP that comes with VPC7 is
>> to
>> first install VPC7 and it does not run on an Intel Mac. That is the
>> showstopper in your situation. It is also true that the bundled XP is
>> only
>> licensed to be used in VPC.
>>
>> Boot Camp requires use of a full edition of XP or Vista anyway.
>>
>> --
>> Colin Barnhorst
>> MVP Virtual Machine
>> "TenThousandThings" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>> > Thanks! That's very clear and it answers my question even though I
>> > really didn't give you enough information. I should have also said
>> > that I just upgraded to an Intel Mac, and I'll be leaving VPC behind.
>> > If I understand you correctly, I can't use an upgrade edition since it
>> > would still be tied to the VPC machine.
>> >
>> >
>
> This may still work for installing Vista from scratch using an upgrade
> version.
>
> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932
>> Workaround Discovered For "Clean Install" With Vista Upgrade DVDs
>> Brandon Hill (Blog) - January 31, 2007 1:05 AM
>>
>> Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround for Vista Upgrade
>> DVDs
>> with no need for a previous version of Windows

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/01/2007
From: who <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>,
"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote:

This may still work for installing Vista from scratch using an upgrade
version.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

Show quoted text

> Correct. In order to install a Vista upgrade edition the previous version
> of Windows must be installed on the computer first. This is a change from
> earlier versions of Windows that only used a shiny media check to verify
> ownership of a previous version of Windows.
>
> The only way to install the bundled version of XP that comes with VPC7 is to
> first install VPC7 and it does not run on an Intel Mac. That is the
> showstopper in your situation. It is also true that the bundled XP is only
> licensed to be used in VPC.
>
> Boot Camp requires use of a full edition of XP or Vista anyway.
>
> --
> Colin Barnhorst
> MVP Virtual Machine
> "TenThousandThings" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
> > Thanks! That's very clear and it answers my question even though I
> > really didn't give you enough information. I should have also said
> > that I just upgraded to an Intel Mac, and I'll be leaving VPC behind.
> > If I understand you correctly, I can't use an upgrade edition since it
> > would still be tied to the VPC machine.
> >
> >
> Workaround Discovered For "Clean Install" With Vista Upgrade DVDs
> Brandon Hill (Blog) - January 31, 2007 1:05 AM
>
> Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround for Vista Upgrade DVDs
> with no need for a previous version of Windows

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/03/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

No, it cannot. It must be an OEM or retail version. Trial (evaluation)
versions and beta versions do not qualify for upgrade pricing. Vista Setup
will detect such versions as not being genuine Windows. A full edition can
upgrade-in-place an evaluation version, but an upgrade edition cannot.

"who" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
>> A Vista upgrade edition requires that Windows 2000, XP, or another
>> edition
>> of Vista already be installed.
>
> That other edition of Vista already installed could be a Vista demo that
> you just installed.
>
>> This may still work for installing Vista from scratch using an upgrade
>> version.
>>
>> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932
>>> Workaround Discovered For "Clean Install" With Vista Upgrade DVDs
>>> Brandon Hill (Blog) - January 31, 2007 1:05 AM
>>>
>>> Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround for Vista Upgrade
>>> DVDs
>>> with no need for a previous version of Windows

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/03/2007
From: who <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>,
"Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

That other edition of Vista already installed could be a Vista demo that
you just installed.

Show quoted text

> A Vista upgrade edition requires that Windows 2000, XP, or another edition
> of Vista already be installed.
> This may still work for installing Vista from scratch using an upgrade
> version.
>
> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932
>> Workaround Discovered For "Clean Install" With Vista Upgrade DVDs
>> Brandon Hill (Blog) - January 31, 2007 1:05 AM
>>
>> Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround for Vista Upgrade
>> DVDs
>> with no need for a previous version of Windows

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/04/2007
From: who <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

You couldn't have read what the article says.
What it says is you can install Vista upgrade version (RETAIL VERSION)
on a PC without a version of Windows already installed.
First you install Vista as a trial, then install again as an upgrade.
The saving is buying the upgrade version saving a few $s.

In article <(email address - cut out)>,
"Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

Show quoted text

> No, it cannot. It must be an OEM or retail version. Trial (evaluation)
> versions and beta versions do not qualify for upgrade pricing. Vista Setup
> will detect such versions as not being genuine Windows. A full edition can
> upgrade-in-place an evaluation version, but an upgrade edition cannot.
>
> "who" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
> > In article <(email address - cut out)>,
> > "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
> >
> >> A Vista upgrade edition requires that Windows 2000, XP, or another
> >> edition
> >> of Vista already be installed.
> >
> > That other edition of Vista already installed could be a Vista demo that
> > you just installed.
> >
> >> This may still work for installing Vista from scratch using an upgrade
> >> version.
> >>
> >> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932
> >>> Workaround Discovered For "Clean Install" With Vista Upgrade DVDs
> >>> Brandon Hill (Blog) - January 31, 2007 1:05 AM
> >>>
> >>> Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround for Vista Upgrade
> >>> DVDs
> >>> with no need for a previous version of Windows

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/04/2007
From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

I wouldn't worry about it. The pathetic REPORTED sales of Vista means
Microsoft will soon be giving it away in breakfast cereal boxes. :o)

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/04/2007
From: Paul Power <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

On May 4, 1:45 am, who <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

Whether it will install with a previous version of Windows or not is a
MOOT point guys.
The OP wants to upgrade to Vista Home Premium (I assume he means Home
Edition or Premium Edition) in VPC. This is in direct violation of the
EULA.
Colin, I am very surprised that you continue to give advice on how to
get Vista working in emulation environments when it clearly states
that it is NOT permitted....whether it will work or not.

Show quoted text

> You couldn't have read what the article says.
> What it says is you can install Vista upgrade version (RETAIL VERSION)
> on a PC without a version of Windows already installed.
> First you install Vista as a trial, then install again as an upgrade.
> The saving is buying the upgrade version saving a few $s.
>
> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
> > No, it cannot. It must be an OEM or retail version. Trial (evaluation)
> > versions and beta versions do not qualify for upgrade pricing. Vista Setup
> > will detect such versions as not being genuine Windows. A full edition can
> > upgrade-in-place an evaluation version, but an upgrade edition cannot.
>
> > "who" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> >news:(email address - cut out)...
> > > In article <(email address - cut out)>,
> > > "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
> > >> A Vista upgrade edition requires that Windows 2000, XP, or another
> > >> edition
> > >> of Vista already be installed.
>
> > > That other edition of Vista already installed could be a Vista demo that
> > > you just installed.
>
> > >> This may still work for installing Vista from scratch using an upgrade
> > >> version.
>
> > >>http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932
> > >>> Workaround Discovered For "Clean Install" With Vista Upgrade DVDs
> > >>> Brandon Hill (Blog) - January 31, 2007 1:05 AM
>
> > >>> Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround for Vista Upgrade
> > >>> DVDs
> > >>> with no need for a previous version of Windows

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/04/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

My reply was more general than VHP and I focused on the "trial" version
issue. Yes, except for MSDN folks, the EULA forbids the Home editions.

"Paul Power" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> On May 4, 1:45 am, who <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>> You couldn't have read what the article says.
>> What it says is you can install Vista upgrade version (RETAIL VERSION)
>> on a PC without a version of Windows already installed.
>> First you install Vista as a trial, then install again as an upgrade.
>> The saving is buying the upgrade version saving a few $s.
>>
>> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>
>> > No, it cannot. It must be an OEM or retail version. Trial
>> > (evaluation)
>> > versions and beta versions do not qualify for upgrade pricing. Vista
>> > Setup
>> > will detect such versions as not being genuine Windows. A full edition
>> > can
>> > upgrade-in-place an evaluation version, but an upgrade edition cannot.
>>
>> > "who" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> >news:(email address - cut out)...
>> > > In article <(email address - cut out)>,
>> > > "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>
>> > >> A Vista upgrade edition requires that Windows 2000, XP, or another
>> > >> edition
>> > >> of Vista already be installed.
>>
>> > > That other edition of Vista already installed could be a Vista demo
>> > > that
>> > > you just installed.
>>
>> > >> This may still work for installing Vista from scratch using an
>> > >> upgrade
>> > >> version.
>>
>> > >>http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932
>> > >>> Workaround Discovered For "Clean Install" With Vista Upgrade DVDs
>> > >>> Brandon Hill (Blog) - January 31, 2007 1:05 AM
>>
>> > >>> Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround for Vista
>> > >>> Upgrade
>> > >>> DVDs
>> > >>> with no need for a previous version of Windows
>
> Whether it will install with a previous version of Windows or not is a
> MOOT point guys.
> The OP wants to upgrade to Vista Home Premium (I assume he means Home
> Edition or Premium Edition) in VPC. This is in direct violation of the
> EULA.
> Colin, I am very surprised that you continue to give advice on how to
> get Vista working in emulation environments when it clearly states
> that it is NOT permitted....whether it will work or not.
>

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/04/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

I don't think the upgrade setup validates evaluation copies anyway. I think
when you enter the upgrade edition product key you get a message to the
effect that Setup cannot find a genuine copy of Windows on the computer. Or
something to that effect.

"Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
> Paul Power <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
>> On May 4, 1:45 am, who <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>> > You couldn't have read what the article says.
>> > What it says is you can install Vista upgrade version (RETAIL VERSION)
>> > on a PC without a version of Windows already installed.
>> > First you install Vista as a trial, then install again as an upgrade.
>> > The saving is buying the upgrade version saving a few $s.
>> >
>> > In article <(email address - cut out)>,
>> > "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>> >
>> > > No, it cannot. It must be an OEM or retail version. Trial
>> > > (evaluation)
>> > > versions and beta versions do not qualify for upgrade pricing. Vista
>> > > Setup
>> > > will detect such versions as not being genuine Windows. A full
>> > > edition
>> > > can
>> > > upgrade-in-place an evaluation version, but an upgrade edition
>> > > cannot.
>> >
>> > > "who" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> > >news:(email address - cut out)...
>> > > > In article <(email address - cut out)>,
>> > > > "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>> >
>> > > >> A Vista upgrade edition requires that Windows 2000, XP, or another
>> > > >> edition
>> > > >> of Vista already be installed.
>> >
>> > > > That other edition of Vista already installed could be a Vista demo
>> > > > that
>> > > > you just installed.
>> >
>> > > >> This may still work for installing Vista from scratch using an
>> > > >> upgrade
>> > > >> version.
>> >
>> > > >>http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932
>> > > >>> Workaround Discovered For "Clean Install" With Vista Upgrade DVDs
>> > > >>> Brandon Hill (Blog) - January 31, 2007 1:05 AM
>> >
>> > > >>> Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround for Vista
>> > > >>> Upgrade
>> > > >>> DVDs
>> > > >>> with no need for a previous version of Windows
>>
>> Whether it will install with a previous version of Windows or not is a
>> MOOT point guys.
>> The OP wants to upgrade to Vista Home Premium (I assume he means Home
>> Edition or Premium Edition) in VPC. This is in direct violation of the
>> EULA.
>> Colin, I am very surprised that you continue to give advice on how to
>> get Vista working in emulation environments when it clearly states
>> that it is NOT permitted....whether it will work or not.
>
> Even ignoring that Vista Home versions are not allowed to be run under
> emulation / virtualisation systems like Virtual PC, it would also
> obviously be illegal to install an Upgrade version using a free trial
> version as the basis for the upgrade. Upgrade prices are lower because
> the person using it is supposed to have already paid the full price for
> a previous version of the product. For this same reason you're not
> allowed to sell the previous version while still using the upgrade.
>
>
> Helpful Harry
> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/04/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

That's all well and good but there are holes in the enforcement software and
folks are going to take advantage of them. For example, you shouldn't be
able to run both the legacy Windows you ar updating and the Vista upgrade
edition that leverages it at the same time but in fact Vista setup doesn't
stop you if you want to use an upgrade edition to set up a dual boot system.
It shouldn't be allowed to work, but if you choose a custom install you can
do it and the legacy system is not disabled by it. By all logic that should
require a full edition of Vista because you wind up with two running copies
of Windows and the licensing issue is obvious. But an upgrade edition
product key still lets you do it. (I think the hole exists because of
difficulties that would occur if upgrading from Windows 2000 Pro and MS
decided to err on the side of customer relations.)

As to "pirate scum," that is a bit harsh. MS calls misuse of product keys
by consumers "casual copying" and not piracy. Piracy involves distribution
to others to the detriment of MS. MS considers the control of casual
copying to be its responsibility through software. When a software solution
would lead to bad customer relations MS sometimes decides to tolerate an
abuse. I wouldn't call such a thing "piracy" if MS themselves are not
willing to call it that.

"Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>> >
>> > Even ignoring that Vista Home versions are not allowed to be run under
>> > emulation / virtualisation systems like Virtual PC, it would also
>> > obviously be illegal to install an Upgrade version using a free trial
>> > version as the basis for the upgrade. Upgrade prices are lower because
>> > the person using it is supposed to have already paid the full price for
>> > a previous version of the product. For this same reason you're not
>> > allowed to sell the previous version while still using the upgrade.
>>
>> I don't think the upgrade setup validates evaluation copies anyway. I
>> think
>> when you enter the upgrade edition product key you get a message to the
>> effect that Setup cannot find a genuine copy of Windows on the computer.
>> Or
>> something to that effect.
>
> The point is that you would have to be a selfish pirate scum to even
> think of trying it, let alone actually doing it and believeing it was
> fine to do os. The free trial / demo of a product is not created to
> allow people to circumvent the proper way of buying that software -
> common sense and common decency should tell people that much. :o\
>
> Helpful Harry
> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/04/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

No, this is the first time I have seen this. Thanks for the post. The old
CPP pages indicated that a full edition would be necessary to perform an in
place upgrade or custom install of the final. This is good news for the CPP
testers.

"Richard Cardona" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>> I don't think the upgrade setup validates evaluation copies anyway. I
>> think when you enter the upgrade edition product key you get a message to
>> the effect that Setup cannot find a genuine copy of Windows on the
>> computer. Or something to that effect.
>
> Is everyone here aware that Microsoft allows Community Preview Program
> (CPP) beta copies of Vista to be upgraded to the GA version with the
> upgrade edition?
>
> Details at:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/preview.mspx

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/04/2007
From: Richard Cardona <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Colin Barnhorst wrote:

Is everyone here aware that Microsoft allows Community Preview Program
(CPP) beta copies of Vista to be upgraded to the GA version with the
upgrade edition?

Details at:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/preview.mspx

Show quoted text

> I don't think the upgrade setup validates evaluation copies anyway. I
> think when you enter the upgrade edition product key you get a message
> to the effect that Setup cannot find a genuine copy of Windows on the
> computer. Or something to that effect.

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/05/2007
From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>,
Paul Power <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

Even ignoring that Vista Home versions are not allowed to be run under
emulation / virtualisation systems like Virtual PC, it would also
obviously be illegal to install an Upgrade version using a free trial
version as the basis for the upgrade. Upgrade prices are lower because
the person using it is supposed to have already paid the full price for
a previous version of the product. For this same reason you're not
allowed to sell the previous version while still using the upgrade.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Show quoted text

> On May 4, 1:45 am, who <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
> > You couldn't have read what the article says.
> > What it says is you can install Vista upgrade version (RETAIL VERSION)
> > on a PC without a version of Windows already installed.
> > First you install Vista as a trial, then install again as an upgrade.
> > The saving is buying the upgrade version saving a few $s.
> >
> > In article <(email address - cut out)>,
> > "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
> >
> > > No, it cannot. It must be an OEM or retail version. Trial (evaluation)
> > > versions and beta versions do not qualify for upgrade pricing. Vista
> > > Setup
> > > will detect such versions as not being genuine Windows. A full edition
> > > can
> > > upgrade-in-place an evaluation version, but an upgrade edition cannot.
> >
> > > "who" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> > >news:(email address - cut out)...
> > > > In article <(email address - cut out)>,
> > > > "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
> >
> > > >> A Vista upgrade edition requires that Windows 2000, XP, or another
> > > >> edition
> > > >> of Vista already be installed.
> >
> > > > That other edition of Vista already installed could be a Vista demo that
> > > > you just installed.
> >
> > > >> This may still work for installing Vista from scratch using an upgrade
> > > >> version.
> >
> > > >>http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932
> > > >>> Workaround Discovered For "Clean Install" With Vista Upgrade DVDs
> > > >>> Brandon Hill (Blog) - January 31, 2007 1:05 AM
> >
> > > >>> Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround for Vista Upgrade
> > > >>> DVDs
> > > >>> with no need for a previous version of Windows
>
> Whether it will install with a previous version of Windows or not is a
> MOOT point guys.
> The OP wants to upgrade to Vista Home Premium (I assume he means Home
> Edition or Premium Edition) in VPC. This is in direct violation of the
> EULA.
> Colin, I am very surprised that you continue to give advice on how to
> get Vista working in emulation environments when it clearly states
> that it is NOT permitted....whether it will work or not.

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/05/2007
From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

The point is that you would have to be a selfish pirate scum to even
think of trying it, let alone actually doing it and believeing it was
fine to do os. The free trial / demo of a product is not created to
allow people to circumvent the proper way of buying that software -
common sense and common decency should tell people that much. :o\

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Show quoted text

> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
> >
> > Even ignoring that Vista Home versions are not allowed to be run under
> > emulation / virtualisation systems like Virtual PC, it would also
> > obviously be illegal to install an Upgrade version using a free trial
> > version as the basis for the upgrade. Upgrade prices are lower because
> > the person using it is supposed to have already paid the full price for
> > a previous version of the product. For this same reason you're not
> > allowed to sell the previous version while still using the upgrade.
>
> I don't think the upgrade setup validates evaluation copies anyway. I think
> when you enter the upgrade edition product key you get a message to the
> effect that Setup cannot find a genuine copy of Windows on the computer. Or
> something to that effect.

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/05/2007
From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

<snip>

What Microsoft chooses to call it or do about it isn't really relevant.
The fact is that the person IS illegally copying / using the software
and therefore IS still a pirate.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Show quoted text

> As to "pirate scum," that is a bit harsh. MS calls misuse of product keys
> by consumers "casual copying" and not piracy. Piracy involves distribution
> to others to the detriment of MS. MS considers the control of casual
> copying to be its responsibility through software. When a software solution
> would lead to bad customer relations MS sometimes decides to tolerate an
> abuse. I wouldn't call such a thing "piracy" if MS themselves are not
> willing to call it that.

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/05/2007
From: Paul Power <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

On May 5, 12:23 am, Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)>
wrote:

Colin:

Your original reply in this post was a clear and concise statement to
the OP that he could qualify for Upgrade pricing and use a Vista
Upgrade to upgrade his version of XP in VPC to Vista.

First, there is no mention of 'trial' versions in that post.

Second, your info is wrong. You cannot qualify for a Vista upgrade in
this case. The version of XP in VPC, although it falls in the 'OEM'
category does not qualify because the package cannot be separated. VPC
and XP are considered ONE product.

Helpful Harry, Steve Jain, and myself have been very strong advocates
of proper licensing procedures and policies. We post endless numbers
of replies to users who have questions about the licensing limitations
of Windows in VPC. I believe that your posts are confusing to the
general population. You seem to be posting replies based on MSDN
development criteria.......this is the wrong place for that.

Show quoted text

> In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
>
> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > As to "pirate scum," that is a bit harsh. MS calls misuse of product keys
> > by consumers "casual copying" and not piracy. Piracy involves distribution
> > to others to the detriment of MS. MS considers the control of casual
> > copying to be its responsibility through software. When a software solution
> > would lead to bad customer relations MS sometimes decides to tolerate an
> > abuse. I wouldn't call such a thing "piracy" if MS themselves are not
> > willing to call it that.
>
> What Microsoft chooses to call it or do about it isn't really relevant.
> The fact is that the person IS illegally copying / using the software
> and therefore IS still a pirate.
>
> Helpful Harry
> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/05/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In his original post he did not say yet that he was buying an Intel Mac so I
assumed that he wanted to upgrade from XP to Vista on his PPC Mac, which he
could do without doing anything with the second cd that comes with VPC7. He
would be able to do an upgrade in place from XP Home to VHP or a custom
install from XP Pro to VHP inside the vm. An upgrade edition product key
would permit this.

Later in the thread 'who' commented that "That other edition of Vista
already installed could be a Vista demo that you just installed" and that
was the basis for my comment as to trial (demo) versions. Unless 'who'
meant beta and RC copies of Vista and not demos then he is incorrect.

Licensing issues aside, the fact is that these upgrades do work because I
have done them in virtual machines and have tested the scenario that the OP
asked about.

"Paul Power" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> On May 5, 12:23 am, Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)>
> wrote:
>> In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
>>
>> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > As to "pirate scum," that is a bit harsh. MS calls misuse of product
>> > keys
>> > by consumers "casual copying" and not piracy. Piracy involves
>> > distribution
>> > to others to the detriment of MS. MS considers the control of casual
>> > copying to be its responsibility through software. When a software
>> > solution
>> > would lead to bad customer relations MS sometimes decides to tolerate
>> > an
>> > abuse. I wouldn't call such a thing "piracy" if MS themselves are not
>> > willing to call it that.
>>
>> What Microsoft chooses to call it or do about it isn't really relevant.
>> The fact is that the person IS illegally copying / using the software
>> and therefore IS still a pirate.
>>
>> Helpful Harry
>> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
>
> Colin:
>
> Your original reply in this post was a clear and concise statement to
> the OP that he could qualify for Upgrade pricing and use a Vista
> Upgrade to upgrade his version of XP in VPC to Vista.
>
> First, there is no mention of 'trial' versions in that post.
>
> Second, your info is wrong. You cannot qualify for a Vista upgrade in
> this case. The version of XP in VPC, although it falls in the 'OEM'
> category does not qualify because the package cannot be separated. VPC
> and XP are considered ONE product.
>
> Helpful Harry, Steve Jain, and myself have been very strong advocates
> of proper licensing procedures and policies. We post endless numbers
> of replies to users who have questions about the licensing limitations
> of Windows in VPC. I believe that your posts are confusing to the
> general population. You seem to be posting replies based on MSDN
> development criteria.......this is the wrong place for that.
>

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/05/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

"Doing it" puts the user in an "out of compliance" status and that is not
defined as piracy. If the user purchases a genuine copy of Windows he can
be out of compliance on the license through usage but he has purchased the
license and is therefore not a pirate. Piracy is a criminal offense and I
don't think being out of compliance on a license is a criminal offense.

"Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
> <snip>
>> Licensing issues aside, the fact is that these upgrades do work because I
>> have done them in virtual machines and have tested the scenario that the
>> OP
>> asked about.
>
> That's the problem. You can't ignore the "licensing issues". Whether or
> not it can be done is completely irrelevant - the fact is that you're
> not allowed to do it and doing it is actually illegal and makes the
> person a pirate.
>
> Helpful Harry
> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/05/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Piracy involves the illegal distribution of the software. Misusing a
license you own cannot be piracy. Period. Don't you get it, HH? If you
own the license you cannot be pirating it. doh.

"Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
>> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>> > In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
>> > Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>> > <snip>
>> >> Licensing issues aside, the fact is that these upgrades do work
>> >> because I
>> >> have done them in virtual machines and have tested the scenario that
>> >> the
>> >> OP asked about.
>> >
>> > That's the problem. You can't ignore the "licensing issues". Whether or
>> > not it can be done is completely irrelevant - the fact is that you're
>> > not allowed to do it and doing it is actually illegal and makes the
>> > person a pirate.
>>
>> "Doing it" puts the user in an "out of compliance" status and that is not
>> defined as piracy. If the user purchases a genuine copy of Windows he can
>> be out of compliance on the license through usage but he has purchased
>> the
>> license and is therefore not a pirate. Piracy is a criminal offense and
>> I
>> don't think being out of compliance on a license is a criminal offense.
>
> You sound like one of those scum lawyers that tries to get idiots off
> through some idiotic technicality. They are still using the software
> outside the bounds of the license agreement they actually aggreed to
> when installing it. Whether or not it's illegal in a "police sense" is
> irrelevant ... it is illegal in the "against the agreement" sense and
> IS still piracy and is still done by scum that are not wanted here.
>
> Helpful Harry
> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/06/2007
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

Thank you for your kind word!

"Pirate chaser" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> You are very right Colin.
>
> "Helpful" Harry just seems to want to harass hard working Windows users.
> I'm thinking he is descendent from those pirates of the sea.
>
> You are the helpful one here Colin.
>
> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
>> Piracy involves the illegal distribution of the software. Misusing a
>> license you own cannot be piracy. Period. Don't you get it, HH? If you
>> own the license you cannot be pirating it. doh.
>
> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> You sound like one of those scum lawyers that tries to get idiots off
>> through some idiotic technicality. They are still using the software
>> outside the bounds of the license agreement they actually aggreed to
>> when installing it. Whether or not it's illegal in a "police sense" is
>> irrelevant ... it is illegal in the "against the agreement" sense and
>> IS still piracy and is still done by scum that are not wanted here.
>>
>> Helpful Harry
>> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/06/2007
From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
<snip>

That's the problem. You can't ignore the "licensing issues". Whether or
not it can be done is completely irrelevant - the fact is that you're
not allowed to do it and doing it is actually illegal and makes the
person a pirate.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Show quoted text

> Licensing issues aside, the fact is that these upgrades do work because I
> have done them in virtual machines and have tested the scenario that the OP
> asked about.

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/06/2007
From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

You sound like one of those scum lawyers that tries to get idiots off
through some idiotic technicality. They are still using the software
outside the bounds of the license agreement they actually aggreed to
when installing it. Whether or not it's illegal in a "police sense" is
irrelevant ... it is illegal in the "against the agreement" sense and
IS still piracy and is still done by scum that are not wanted here.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Show quoted text

> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
> > In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
> > Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
> > <snip>
> >> Licensing issues aside, the fact is that these upgrades do work because I
> >> have done them in virtual machines and have tested the scenario that the
> >> OP asked about.
> >
> > That's the problem. You can't ignore the "licensing issues". Whether or
> > not it can be done is completely irrelevant - the fact is that you're
> > not allowed to do it and doing it is actually illegal and makes the
> > person a pirate.
>
> "Doing it" puts the user in an "out of compliance" status and that is not
> defined as piracy. If the user purchases a genuine copy of Windows he can
> be out of compliance on the license through usage but he has purchased the
> license and is therefore not a pirate. Piracy is a criminal offense and I
> don't think being out of compliance on a license is a criminal offense.

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/06/2007
From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

Call it whatever you want - the fact remains it IS against the
licensing agreement and such stupidity is NOT wanted here.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Show quoted text

>
> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
> > In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
> > Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
> >
> >> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> >> news:(email address - cut out)...
> >> > In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
> >> > Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
> >> > <snip>
> >> >> Licensing issues aside, the fact is that these upgrades do work
> >> >> because I
> >> >> have done them in virtual machines and have tested the scenario that
> >> >> the
> >> >> OP asked about.
> >> >
> >> > That's the problem. You can't ignore the "licensing issues". Whether or
> >> > not it can be done is completely irrelevant - the fact is that you're
> >> > not allowed to do it and doing it is actually illegal and makes the
> >> > person a pirate.
> >>
> >> "Doing it" puts the user in an "out of compliance" status and that is not
> >> defined as piracy. If the user purchases a genuine copy of Windows he can
> >> be out of compliance on the license through usage but he has purchased
> >> the license and is therefore not a pirate. Piracy is a criminal offense
> >> and I don't think being out of compliance on a license is a criminal
> >> offense.
> >
> > You sound like one of those scum lawyers that tries to get idiots off
> > through some idiotic technicality. They are still using the software
> > outside the bounds of the license agreement they actually aggreed to
> > when installing it. Whether or not it's illegal in a "police sense" is
> > irrelevant ... it is illegal in the "against the agreement" sense and
> > IS still piracy and is still done by scum that are not wanted here.
>
> Piracy involves the illegal distribution of the software. Misusing a
> license you own cannot be piracy. Period. Don't you get it, HH? If you
> own the license you cannot be pirating it. doh.

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/06/2007
From: Pirate chaser <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

You are very right Colin.

"Helpful" Harry just seems to want to harass hard working Windows users.
I'm thinking he is descendent from those pirates of the sea.

You are the helpful one here Colin.

In article <(email address - cut out)>,
"Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

"Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message

Show quoted text

> Piracy involves the illegal distribution of the software. Misusing a
> license you own cannot be piracy. Period. Don't you get it, HH? If you
> own the license you cannot be pirating it. doh.
> You sound like one of those scum lawyers that tries to get idiots off
> through some idiotic technicality. They are still using the software
> outside the bounds of the license agreement they actually aggreed to
> when installing it. Whether or not it's illegal in a "police sense" is
> irrelevant ... it is illegal in the "against the agreement" sense and
> IS still piracy and is still done by scum that are not wanted here.
>
> Helpful Harry
> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/07/2007
From: Paul Power <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

"In his original post he did not say yet that he was buying an Intel
Mac so I
assumed that he wanted to upgrade from XP to Vista on his PPC Mac,
which he
could do without doing anything with the second cd that comes with
VPC7. He
would be able to do an upgrade in place from XP Home to VHP or a
custom
install from XP Pro to VHP inside the vm. An upgrade edition product
key
would permit this."

Again, Colin, I re-iterate.....THIS IS NOT LEGAL.......Please read the
EULA. In addition, anyone who owns the bundled version of VPC DOES NOT
qualify for upgrade pricing to Vista......the 'upgrade' would have to
be to a newer version of VPC.

"Licensing issues aside, the fact is that these upgrades do work
because I
have done them in virtual machines and have tested the scenario that
the OP
asked about."

So, unless you are an MSDN developer, then you are admitting to
violating the EULA. You can't just put licensing issues aside. They
are set in stone.

I really don't understand why you are trying to confuse this issue.
It's pretty simple.

Re: Do we qualify for Vista upgrade pricing?

Sent: 05/08/2007
From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

In article <(email address - cut out)>,
Paul Power <(email address - cut out)> wrote:

Err... not quite.

The bundled version of Windows with Virtual PC DOES qualify for an
upgrade pricing, just like any bundled version of Windows with a PC
bought from Dell or whoever ... *BUT* only if you're using the upgrade
on the same computer (in this case the Virtual PC softtware-based
"pretend" computer). You can NOT use the bundeled version of Windows to
upgrade a completely different computer (in this case Boot Camp or
Parallels).

The other problem is that you are definitely not allowed to use the
cheaper / Home versions of Vista with emaultion / virtualisation, so
would have to upgrade to the more expensive versions AND use them with
Virtual PC ... which would be very slow going unless you own a G5.

Unfortunately most Internet users are even "simpler" in the head, which
is mainly because they're only about 13 years old (physically or
mentally). :o\

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Show quoted text

> "In his original post he did not say yet that he was buying an Intel
> Mac so I
> assumed that he wanted to upgrade from XP to Vista on his PPC Mac,
> which he
> could do without doing anything with the second cd that comes with
> VPC7. He
> would be able to do an upgrade in place from XP Home to VHP or a
> custom
> install from XP Pro to VHP inside the vm. An upgrade edition product
> key
> would permit this."
>
>
> Again, Colin, I re-iterate.....THIS IS NOT LEGAL.......Please read the
> EULA. In addition, anyone who owns the bundled version of VPC DOES NOT
> qualify for upgrade pricing to Vista......the 'upgrade' would have to
> be to a newer version of VPC.
> "Licensing issues aside, the fact is that these upgrades do work
> because I have done them in virtual machines and have tested the
> scenario that the OP asked about."
>
> So, unless you are an MSDN developer, then you are admitting to
> violating the EULA. You can't just put licensing issues aside. They
> are set in stone.
>
> I really don't understand why you are trying to confuse this issue.
> It's pretty simple.

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