>
>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in the
>Virtual machine
>
>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?

>Virtual machine
>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>
>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in the
>Virtual machine
>
>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?

>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>
>> From "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:33:51 +0530 :
>>
>>>
>>>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in
>>>the
>>>Virtual machine
>>>
>>>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>>
>> Do you legally own the operating system that you are installing?
>>
>> If so, there seems that there would be no problem in doing what you wish
>> with your property..................
>
>This simply isn't true...
>
>Licensing for virtual machines, with only a very few exceptions, is *exactly
>the same* as for physical machines...
>
>Just because you own a copy of e.g. Windows XP, that doesn't entitle you to
>install it on as many machines (physical or virtual) as you like...
>
>Owning a copy of software is not necessarily the same as owning a licence to
>use that software...

>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>
>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run it
>> on
>> one machine and at one time?
>
>The "one instance at one time" rule applies to some application software,
>but not to Windows.
>
>> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing another
>> OS?
>
>No.

>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>
>>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run
>>>> it
>>>> on one machine and at one time?
>>>
>>>The "one instance at one time" rule applies to some application software,
>>>but not to Windows.
>>
>> If it does not apply there, what does?
>
>A regular Windows licence, generally speaking, allows the copy of Windows to
>be *installed*
>on one machine (physical or virtual) at any given time.
>If
>you buy a new machine, you can install your existing copy of Windows on it
>so long as you remove it from the old machine first...
>
>As Bob has mentioned, certain versions of Windows now permit virtualisation
>of their licence - this is a relatively new phenomenon.
>
>Volumne licenses / select agreements are, of course, different.
>
>And other licensing options exist. E.g. I have an MSDN subscription which
>permits me to install most Microsoft products as many times as I like on as
>many machines as I like as simultaneously as I like so long as my reason for
>doing so is for development, testing or demonstration purposes...

>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>
>> The word "virtual" does not appear in the Windows XP Professional EULA
>
>As has already been stated, a virtual machine is treated the same as a
>physical machine in terms of licensing...
>
>> An interesting word choice of "Virtual" in "Microsoft Virtual PC 2007"
>> A definition starts as...
>> Quick definitions (virtual)
>> # (a.) Being in essence or effect, not in fact.............
>>
>> So, though it is that thing or entity in essence, if it is virtual and
>> that
>> is not mentioned then in fact, it does not really exist..........
>
><sigh> OK, whatever you like...

> From "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:33:51 +0530 :
>
>>
>>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in
>>the
>>Virtual machine
>>
>>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>
> Do you legally own the operating system that you are installing?
>
> If so, there seems that there would be no problem in doing what you wish
> with your property..................

> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:30:44 +0100 :
>
>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>>> From "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:33:51 +0530 :
>>>
>>>>
>>>>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in
>>>>the
>>>>Virtual machine
>>>>
>>>>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>>>
>>> Do you legally own the operating system that you are installing?
>>>
>>> If so, there seems that there would be no problem in doing what you wish
>>> with your property..................
>>
>>This simply isn't true...
>>
>>Licensing for virtual machines, with only a very few exceptions, is
>>*exactly
>>the same* as for physical machines...
>>
>>Just because you own a copy of e.g. Windows XP, that doesn't entitle you
>>to
>>install it on as many machines (physical or virtual) as you like...
>>
>>Owning a copy of software is not necessarily the same as owning a licence
>>to
>>use that software...
>
>
> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run it
> on
> one machine and at one time?
>
> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing another
> OS?
>
>
> The are simply simple questions. They have answers like "Yes" or "No".
>
> FACE
>
>

> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:36:22 +0100 :
>
>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run
>>> it
>>> on
>>> one machine and at one time?
>>
>>The "one instance at one time" rule applies to some application software,
>>but not to Windows.
>
> If it does not apply there, what does?
>
>>
>>> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing another
>>> OS?
>>
>>No.
>
> Thank you.
>
> FACE
>

> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:13:55 +0100 :
>
>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>>>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run
>>>>> it
>>>>> on one machine and at one time?
>>>>
>>>>The "one instance at one time" rule applies to some application
>>>>software,
>>>>but not to Windows.
>>>
>>> If it does not apply there, what does?
>>
>>A regular Windows licence, generally speaking, allows the copy of Windows
>>to
>>be *installed*
>
>>on one machine (physical or virtual) at any given time.
>
> The word "virtual" does not appear in the Windows XP Professional EULA
>
> END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE
> WINDOWS XP PROFESSIONAL EDITION SERVICE PACK 2
>
> IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY:
> This End-User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement
> between you (either an individual or a single entity) and
> Microsoft Corporation or one of its affiliates ("Microsoft")
> for the Microsoft software that accompanies this EULA, which
> includes computer software and may include associated media,
> printed materials, "online" or electronic documentation, and
> Internet-based services ("Software"). An amendment or
> addendum to this EULA may accompany the Software.
> YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS
> EULA BY INSTALLING, COPYING, OR OTHERWISE
> USING THE SOFTWARE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE,
> DO NOT INSTALL, COPY, OR USE THE SOFTWARE;
> YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE
> FOR A FULL REFUND, IF APPLICABLE.
>
> 1. GRANT OF LICENSE.
> Microsoft grants you the following rights provided that
> you comply with all terms and conditions of this EULA:
>
> 1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
> display and run one copy of the Software on a single
> computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
> device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
> be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
> time on any single Workstation Computer.
>
> 1.2 Mandatory Activation. The license rights granted under
> this EULA are limited to the first thirty (30) days
> after you first install the Software unless you supply
> information required to activate your licensed copy in
> the manner described during the setup sequence of the
> Software. You can activate the Software through the
> use of the Internet or telephone; toll charges may
> apply. You may also need to reactivate the Software
> if you modify your computer hardware or alter the
> Software. There are technological measures in this
> Software that are designed to prevent unlicensed use of
> the Software. Microsoft will use those measures to
> confirm you have a legally licensed copy of the
> Software. If you are not using a licensed copy of the
> Software, you are not allowed to install the Software
> or future Software updates. Microsoft will not collect
> any personally identifiable information from your
> Workstation Computer during this process.
>
> 1.3 Device Connections. You may permit a maximum of
> ten (10) computers or other electronic devices (each
> a "Device") to connect to the Workstation Computer
> to utilize one or more of the following services of
> the Software: File Services, Print Services, Internet
> Information Services, Internet Connection Sharing and
> telephony services. The ten connection maximum includes
> any indirect connections made through "multiplexing" or
> other software or hardware which pools or aggregates
> connections. This ten connection maximum does not
> apply to other uses of the Software, such as
> synchronizing data between a Device and the Workstation
> Computer, provided only one user uses, accesses,
> displays or runs the Software at any one time. This
> Section 1.3 does not grant you rights to access a
> Workstation Computer Session from any Device.
> A "Session" means any use of the Software that
> enables functionality similar to that available to an
> end user who is interacting with the Workstation
> Computer through any combination of input, output and
> display peripherals.
>
> 1.4 Remote Desktop/Remote Assistance/NetMeeting. The
> Software contains Remote Desktop, Remote Assistance,
> and NetMeeting technologies that enable the Software or
> applications installed on the Workstation Computer
> (sometimes referred to as a host device) to be accessed
> remotely from other Devices. You may use the Software's
> Remote Desktop feature (or other software which provides
> similar functionality for a similar purpose) to access a
> Workstation Computer Session from any Device provided
> you acquire a separate Software license for that Device.
> As an exception to this rule, the person who is the
> single primary user of the Workstation Computer may
> access a Workstation Computer Session from any Device
> without acquiring an additional Software license for
> that Device. When you are using Remote Assistance or
> NetMeeting (or other software which provides similar
> functionality for a similar purpose) you may share a
> Session with other users without any limit on the number
> of Device connections and without acquiring additional
> licenses for the Software. For Microsoft and
> non-Microsoft applications, you should consult the
> license agreement accompanying the applicable software
> or contact the applicable licensor to determine whether
> use of the software with Remote Desktop, Remote
> Assistance, or NetMeeting is permitted without an
> additional license.
>
> 1.5 Storage/Network Use. You may also store or install a
> copy of the Software on a storage device, such as a
> network server, used only to install or run the
> Software on your other Workstation Computers over an
> internal network; however, you must acquire and
> dedicate an additional license for each separate
> Workstation Computer on or from which the Software is
> installed, used, accessed, displayed or run. Except
> as otherwise permitted by the NetMeeting and Remote
> Assistance features described above, a license for
> the Software may not be shared or used concurrently
> on different Workstation Computers.
>
> 2. AUTOMATIC INTERNET-BASED SERVICES.
> The Software features described below are enabled by default
> to connect via the Internet to Microsoft computer systems
> automatically, without separate notice to you. You consent
> to the operation of these features, unless you choose to
> switch them off or not use them. Microsoft does not obtain
> personal information through any of these features. For
> more information about these features, please see your
> Software documentation, the Microsoft online support site,
> or the privacy statement at
> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=25243.
>
> 2.1 Windows Update Features. If you connect hardware to
> your Workstation Computer, it may not have the drivers
> needed to communicate with that hardware. The Software's
> update feature can obtain the correct drivers from
> Microsoft and install them on your device. You can
> switch this update feature off.
>
> 2.2 Web Content Features. Under the Software's default
> configuration, if you are connected to the Internet,
> several features of the Software are enabled by default
> to retrieve content from Microsoft computer systems and
> display it to you. When you activate such a feature, it
> uses standard Internet protocols, which transmit the
> type of operating system, browser and language code of
> your Workstation Computer to the Microsoft computer
> system so that the content can be viewed properly from
> your Workstation Computer. These features only operate
> when you activate them, and you may choose to switch
> them off or not use them. Examples of these features
> include Windows Catalog, Search Assistant, and the
> Headlines and Search features of Help and Support
> Center.
>
> 2.3 Digital Certificates. The Software uses digital
> certificates based on the x.509 standard. These digital
> certificates confirm the identity of Internet users
> sending x.509 standard encrypted information. The
> software retrieves certificates and updates certificate
> revocation lists. These security features operate only
> when you use the Internet.
>
>
> An interesting word choice of "Virtual" in "Microsoft Virtual PC 2007"
> A definition starts as...
> Quick definitions (virtual)
> # (a.) Being in essence or effect, not in fact.............
>
> So, though it is that thing or entity in essence, if it is virtual and
> that
> is not mentioned then in fact, it does not really exist..........
>
> Perhaps there have been precedent court cases on this that you may point
> to?
>
> FACE
>
>>If
>>you buy a new machine, you can install your existing copy of Windows on it
>>so long as you remove it from the old machine first...
>>
>>As Bob has mentioned, certain versions of Windows now permit
>>virtualisation
>>of their licence - this is a relatively new phenomenon.
>>
>>Volumne licenses / select agreements are, of course, different.
>>
>>And other licensing options exist. E.g. I have an MSDN subscription which
>>permits me to install most Microsoft products as many times as I like on
>>as
>>many machines as I like as simultaneously as I like so long as my reason
>>for
>>doing so is for development, testing or demonstration purposes...
>

> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:45:57 +0100 :
>
>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>>> The word "virtual" does not appear in the Windows XP Professional EULA
>>
>>As has already been stated, a virtual machine is treated the same as a
>>physical machine in terms of licensing...
>>
>>> An interesting word choice of "Virtual" in "Microsoft Virtual PC 2007"
>>> A definition starts as...
>>> Quick definitions (virtual)
>>> # (a.) Being in essence or effect, not in fact.............
>>>
>>> So, though it is that thing or entity in essence, if it is virtual and
>>> that
>>> is not mentioned then in fact, it does not really exist..........
>>
>><sigh> OK, whatever you like...
>
> The point is the way you said "virtual" to imply that license legalities
> applied ex post facto. You had no backup except to attempt a denigration
> of
> my argument.
>
> [<sigh> The bill has been settled]
>
> OK? I am mostly on political newsgroups......... :-)
>
> FACE

> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run it
> on
> one machine and at one time?
> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing another
> OS?

>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run
>>> it
>>> on one machine and at one time?
>>
>>The "one instance at one time" rule applies to some application software,
>>but not to Windows.
>
> If it does not apply there, what does?

> The word "virtual" does not appear in the Windows XP Professional EULA
> An interesting word choice of "Virtual" in "Microsoft Virtual PC 2007"
> A definition starts as...
> Quick definitions (virtual)
> # (a.) Being in essence or effect, not in fact.............
>
> So, though it is that thing or entity in essence, if it is virtual and
> that
> is not mentioned then in fact, it does not really exist..........

>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>
>>><sigh> OK, whatever you like...
>>
>> The point is the way you said "virtual" to imply that license legalities
>> applied ex post facto. You had no backup except to attempt a denigration
>> of
>> my argument.
>
>No - the point is that Microsoft considers virtual machines to be the same
>as physical machines in terms of licensing.
>
>Your definition of the word 'virtual' is of supreme irrelevance...

>You are licensed to install one copy of the software. It has nothing to do
>with running it. With a retail license, you are entitled to remove it from
>one device and assign it to another device (transfer).
>
>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:36:22 +0100 :
>>
>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>
>>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run
>>>> it
>>>> on
>>>> one machine and at one time?
>>>
>>>The "one instance at one time" rule applies to some application software,
>>>but not to Windows.
>>
>> If it does not apply there, what does?
>>
>>>
>>>> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing another
>>>> OS?
>>>
>>>No.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> FACE
>>

>><sigh> OK, whatever you like...
>
> The point is the way you said "virtual" to imply that license legalities
> applied ex post facto. You had no backup except to attempt a denigration
> of
> my argument.

>In actual fact this should also mean that multi-booting two copies
>of the same licence is not allowed since to do this one has to install
>it as a second copy on the same PC. Not that I have heard about
>multi-booting the same operatring system on the same PC....

>On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:07:46 -0400, FACE <(email address - cut out)>
>wrote:
>
>>A good catch that does not refer to "virtual" and is without further
>>obfuscation --
>>
>>1. GRANT OF LICENSE.
>> Microsoft grants you the following rights provided that
>> you comply with all terms and conditions of this EULA:
>>
>> 1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
>> display and run one copy of the Software on a single
>> computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
>> device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
>> be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
>> time on any single Workstation Computer.
>>
>
>To me this reads *one* installation, period. So we can stop discussing
>VPC guests or virtual computers etc. It is *one* copy on a *single*
>computer.
>
>Some argue that they can install it in multiple guests because these
>are running on the same hardware PC, but this is not backed by this
>wording. It says *one* copy.....
>
>In actual fact this should *also* mean that multi-booting two copies
>of the same licence is not allowed since to do this one has to install
>it as a second copy on the same PC. Not that I have heard about
>multi-booting the same operatring system on the same PC....

>What's the point of copying the whole EULA?

>A good catch that does not refer to "virtual" and is without further
>obfuscation --
>
>1. GRANT OF LICENSE.
> Microsoft grants you the following rights provided that
> you comply with all terms and conditions of this EULA:
>
> 1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
> display and run one copy of the Software on a single
> computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
> device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
> be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
> time on any single Workstation Computer.
>

>of the same licence is not allowed since to do this one has to install
>it as a second copy on the same PC. Not that I have heard about
>multi-booting the same operatring system on the same PC....
>On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:07:46 -0400, FACE <(email address - cut out)>
>wrote:
>
>>A good catch that does not refer to "virtual" and is without further
>>obfuscation --
>>
>>1. GRANT OF LICENSE.
>> Microsoft grants you the following rights provided that
>> you comply with all terms and conditions of this EULA:
>>
>> 1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
>> display and run one copy of the Software on a single
>> computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
>> device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
>> be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
>> time on any single Workstation Computer.
>>
>
>To me this reads *one* installation, period. So we can stop discussing
>VPC guests or virtual computers etc. It is *one* copy on a *single*
>computer.
>
>Some argue that they can install it in multiple guests because these
>are running on the same hardware PC, but this is not backed by this
>wording. It says *one* copy.....
>
>In actual fact this should *also* mean that multi-booting two copies
>of the same licence is not allowed since to do this one has to install
>it as a second copy on the same PC. Not that I have heard about
>multi-booting the same operatring system on the same PC....

> It would be up to a court of law to see if Microsoft's "consideration"
> overrode the common usage and meaning of words.
> Your serve..............

>
> What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in
> the Virtual machine
>
> ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?

> From "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:53:31 -0600 :
>
>>What's the point of copying the whole EULA?
>
> The point is completeness.
>

> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:07:46 -0400, FACE <(email address - cut out)>
> wrote:
>
>>A good catch that does not refer to "virtual" and is without further
>>obfuscation --
>>
>>1. GRANT OF LICENSE.
>> Microsoft grants you the following rights provided that
>> you comply with all terms and conditions of this EULA:
>>
>> 1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
>> display and run one copy of the Software on a single
>> computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
>> device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
>> be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
>> time on any single Workstation Computer.
>>
>
> To me this reads *one* installation, period. So we can stop discussing
> VPC guests or virtual computers etc. It is *one* copy on a *single*
> computer.
>
> Some argue that they can install it in multiple guests because these
> are running on the same hardware PC, but this is not backed by this
> wording. It says *one* copy.....
>
> In actual fact this should *also* mean that multi-booting two copies
> of the same licence is not allowed since to do this one has to install
> it as a second copy on the same PC. Not that I have heard about
> multi-booting the same operatring system on the same PC....
>
>
> --
>
> Bo Berglund (Sweden)

> Very interesting discussion!! Thank you!
>
> My machine is running on Vista.
> Can I go ahead and install VMWare and then Vista on this machine?
>
>
> "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>> What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in
>> the Virtual machine
>>
>> ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>

> Very interesting discussion!! Thank you!
>
> My machine is running on Vista.
> Can I go ahead and install VMWare and then Vista on this machine?
>
>
> "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>> What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in
>> the Virtual machine
>>
>> ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?

>
>
> What version of Vista? Ultimate -both 32 and 64 bit- is allowed to be
> installed simultaneously on the host and a virtual machine. This is a
> main reason (the other being downgrade rights) that many folks buy
> Ultimate instead of another version. It could also be installed on a
> virtual machine where the host is XP and then installed simultaneously on
> a second machine (non-virtual). This is assuming a retail version. With
> OEM Ultimate version theoretically Vista would have to be installed on the
> host machine and also on a virtual machine on that host machine. But, of
> course, in reality that is not necessarily the case as you could install
> on any machine from the same OEM with no problems other your conscience (I
> am not making light of one's conscience either and if your conscience says
> you shouldn't then don't).
>
> If you are going to use VMWare make sure you have version 6 of
> Workstation. I have 5.5 and had a severe problem with Vista Ultimate
> running on it. That is why I got VirtualPC.
>

> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:30:44 +0100 :
>
>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>>> From "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:33:51 +0530 :
>>>
>>>>
>>>>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in
>>>>the
>>>>Virtual machine
>>>>
>>>>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>>>
>>> Do you legally own the operating system that you are installing?
>>>
>>> If so, there seems that there would be no problem in doing what you wish
>>> with your property..................
>>
>>This simply isn't true...
>>
>>Licensing for virtual machines, with only a very few exceptions, is
>>*exactly
>>the same* as for physical machines...
>>
>>Just because you own a copy of e.g. Windows XP, that doesn't entitle you
>>to
>>install it on as many machines (physical or virtual) as you like...
>>
>>Owning a copy of software is not necessarily the same as owning a licence
>>to
>>use that software...
>
>
> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run it
> on
> one machine and at one time?
>
> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing another
> OS?
>
>
> The are simply simple questions. They have answers like "Yes" or "No".
>
> FACE

>installed simultaneously on the host and a virtual machine.
>
>"Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>> Very interesting discussion!! Thank you!
>>
>> My machine is running on Vista.
>> Can I go ahead and install VMWare and then Vista on this machine?
>>
>>
>> "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>
>>> What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in
>>> the Virtual machine
>>>
>>> ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>
>What version of Vista? Ultimate -both 32 and 64 bit- is allowed to be
>installed simultaneously on the host and a virtual machine. This is a main
>reason (the other being downgrade rights) that many folks buy Ultimate
>instead of another version. It could also be installed on a virtual machine
>where the host is XP and then installed simultaneously on a second machine
>(non-virtual). This is assuming a retail version. With OEM Ultimate version
>theoretically Vista would have to be installed on the host machine and also
>on a virtual machine on that host machine. But, of course, in reality that
>is not necessarily the case as you could install on any machine from the
>same OEM with no problems other your conscience (I am not making light of
>one's conscience either and if your conscience says you shouldn't then
>don't).
>
>If you are going to use VMWare make sure you have version 6 of Workstation.
>I have 5.5 and had a severe problem with Vista Ultimate running on it. That
>is why I got VirtualPC.
>

> From "upyurbuttoo" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:01:43 -0400 :
>
>>
>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:30:44 +0100 :
>>>
>>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>
>>>>> From "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:33:51 +0530 :
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>Virtual machine
>>>>>>
>>>>>>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you legally own the operating system that you are installing?
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, there seems that there would be no problem in doing what you
>>>>> wish
>>>>> with your property..................
>>>>
>>>>This simply isn't true...
>>>>
>>>>Licensing for virtual machines, with only a very few exceptions, is
>>>>*exactly
>>>>the same* as for physical machines...
>>>>
>>>>Just because you own a copy of e.g. Windows XP, that doesn't entitle you
>>>>to
>>>>install it on as many machines (physical or virtual) as you like...
>>>>
>>>>Owning a copy of software is not necessarily the same as owning a
>>>>licence
>>>>to
>>>>use that software...
>>>
>>>
>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run
>>> it
>>> on
>>> one machine and at one time?
>>>
>>> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing another
>>> OS?
>>>
>>>
>>> The are simply simple questions. They have answers like "Yes" or "No".
>>>
>>> FACE
>>
>>
>>No they aren't simple yes and no questions. You should try reading some
>>license agreements.
>>
>
>
> Wow. Gee. I've never done that..........
>
>
>

> You'll need the Dos VM Additions .vfd to use shared folders and stuff for
> a
> MS DOS 6.22 VM. You can extract it from the MS Virtual PC 2004 install
> .exe
> or you can download from several places on the net. Remember that it's a
> virtual floppy and not an .iso and execute a:\dosadd within the VM after
> you
> virtually mount it.......
>
> No need for thanks............
>
> HTH,
>
> FACE
>
> --
>
> From "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:54:10 -0600 :
>
>>All retail licenses are listed at
>>http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx
>>
>>After you make the three drop-down selections and hit GO you will see a
>>link
>>to download the pdf file.
>>
>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>> From "upyurbuttoo" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:01:43 -0400 :
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:30:44 +0100 :
>>>>>
>>>>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:33:51 +0530 :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed
>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>Virtual machine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you legally own the operating system that you are installing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If so, there seems that there would be no problem in doing what you
>>>>>>> wish
>>>>>>> with your property..................
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This simply isn't true...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Licensing for virtual machines, with only a very few exceptions, is
>>>>>>*exactly
>>>>>>the same* as for physical machines...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Just because you own a copy of e.g. Windows XP, that doesn't entitle
>>>>>>you
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>install it on as many machines (physical or virtual) as you like...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Owning a copy of software is not necessarily the same as owning a
>>>>>>licence
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>use that software...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run
>>>>> it
>>>>> on
>>>>> one machine and at one time?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing
>>>>> another
>>>>> OS?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The are simply simple questions. They have answers like "Yes" or
>>>>> "No".
>>>>>
>>>>> FACE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No they aren't simple yes and no questions. You should try reading some
>>>>license agreements.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wow. Gee. I've never done that..........
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

>
>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:30:44 +0100 :
>>
>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>
>>>> From "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:33:51 +0530 :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in
>>>>>the
>>>>>Virtual machine
>>>>>
>>>>>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>>>>
>>>> Do you legally own the operating system that you are installing?
>>>>
>>>> If so, there seems that there would be no problem in doing what you wish
>>>> with your property..................
>>>
>>>This simply isn't true...
>>>
>>>Licensing for virtual machines, with only a very few exceptions, is
>>>*exactly
>>>the same* as for physical machines...
>>>
>>>Just because you own a copy of e.g. Windows XP, that doesn't entitle you
>>>to
>>>install it on as many machines (physical or virtual) as you like...
>>>
>>>Owning a copy of software is not necessarily the same as owning a licence
>>>to
>>>use that software...
>>
>>
>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run it
>> on
>> one machine and at one time?
>>
>> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing another
>> OS?
>>
>>
>> The are simply simple questions. They have answers like "Yes" or "No".
>>
>> FACE
>
>
>No they aren't simple yes and no questions. You should try reading some
>license agreements.
>

>All retail licenses are listed at
>http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx
>
>After you make the three drop-down selections and hit GO you will see a link
>to download the pdf file.
>
>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>> From "upyurbuttoo" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:01:43 -0400 :
>>
>>>
>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:30:44 +0100 :
>>>>
>>>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>
>>>>>> From "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:33:51 +0530 :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed
>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>Virtual machine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you legally own the operating system that you are installing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, there seems that there would be no problem in doing what you
>>>>>> wish
>>>>>> with your property..................
>>>>>
>>>>>This simply isn't true...
>>>>>
>>>>>Licensing for virtual machines, with only a very few exceptions, is
>>>>>*exactly
>>>>>the same* as for physical machines...
>>>>>
>>>>>Just because you own a copy of e.g. Windows XP, that doesn't entitle you
>>>>>to
>>>>>install it on as many machines (physical or virtual) as you like...
>>>>>
>>>>>Owning a copy of software is not necessarily the same as owning a
>>>>>licence
>>>>>to
>>>>>use that software...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run
>>>> it
>>>> on
>>>> one machine and at one time?
>>>>
>>>> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing another
>>>> OS?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The are simply simple questions. They have answers like "Yes" or "No".
>>>>
>>>> FACE
>>>
>>>
>>>No they aren't simple yes and no questions. You should try reading some
>>>license agreements.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Wow. Gee. I've never done that..........
>>
>>
>>

>Are you sure you're replying to the right thread? :)
>
>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>> You'll need the Dos VM Additions .vfd to use shared folders and stuff for
>> a
>> MS DOS 6.22 VM. You can extract it from the MS Virtual PC 2004 install
>> .exe
>> or you can download from several places on the net. Remember that it's a
>> virtual floppy and not an .iso and execute a:\dosadd within the VM after
>> you
>> virtually mount it.......
>>
>> No need for thanks............
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> FACE
>>
>> --
>>
>> From "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:54:10 -0600 :
>>
>>>All retail licenses are listed at
>>>http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx
>>>
>>>After you make the three drop-down selections and hit GO you will see a
>>>link
>>>to download the pdf file.
>>>
>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>> From "upyurbuttoo" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:01:43 -0400 :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:30:44 +0100 :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>>>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:33:51 +0530 :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed
>>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>Virtual machine
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you legally own the operating system that you are installing?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If so, there seems that there would be no problem in doing what you
>>>>>>>> wish
>>>>>>>> with your property..................
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This simply isn't true...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Licensing for virtual machines, with only a very few exceptions, is
>>>>>>>*exactly
>>>>>>>the same* as for physical machines...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Just because you own a copy of e.g. Windows XP, that doesn't entitle
>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>install it on as many machines (physical or virtual) as you like...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Owning a copy of software is not necessarily the same as owning a
>>>>>>>licence
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>use that software...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> one machine and at one time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> OS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The are simply simple questions. They have answers like "Yes" or
>>>>>> "No".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FACE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No they aren't simple yes and no questions. You should try reading some
>>>>>license agreements.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wow. Gee. I've never done that..........
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>

> There is a virtual thread on DOS running in the same space as a tsr
> licensing thread and possibly you have crossed the threshold at a weak
> point....
>
> I hear that it's a matter of concept..............
>
> FACE ;-)
>
>
>
> From "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:24:20 -0600 :
>
>>Are you sure you're replying to the right thread? :)
>>
>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>> You'll need the Dos VM Additions .vfd to use shared folders and stuff
>>> for
>>> a
>>> MS DOS 6.22 VM. You can extract it from the MS Virtual PC 2004 install
>>> .exe
>>> or you can download from several places on the net. Remember that it's
>>> a
>>> virtual floppy and not an .iso and execute a:\dosadd within the VM after
>>> you
>>> virtually mount it.......
>>>
>>> No need for thanks............
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> FACE
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> From "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:54:10 -0600 :
>>>
>>>>All retail licenses are listed at
>>>>http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx
>>>>
>>>>After you make the three drop-down selections and hit GO you will see a
>>>>link
>>>>to download the pdf file.
>>>>
>>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>> From "upyurbuttoo" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:01:43 -0400 :
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:30:44 +0100 :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)>, in
>>>>>>>>> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:33:51 +0530 :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS
>>>>>>>>>>installed
>>>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>Virtual machine
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you legally own the operating system that you are installing?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If so, there seems that there would be no problem in doing what
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> wish
>>>>>>>>> with your property..................
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This simply isn't true...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Licensing for virtual machines, with only a very few exceptions, is
>>>>>>>>*exactly
>>>>>>>>the same* as for physical machines...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Just because you own a copy of e.g. Windows XP, that doesn't entitle
>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>install it on as many machines (physical or virtual) as you like...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Owning a copy of software is not necessarily the same as owning a
>>>>>>>>licence
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>use that software...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to
>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> one machine and at one time?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is that license revoked by the licensee purchasing and licensing
>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>> OS?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The are simply simple questions. They have answers like "Yes" or
>>>>>>> "No".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FACE
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No they aren't simple yes and no questions. You should try reading
>>>>>>some
>>>>>>license agreements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow. Gee. I've never done that..........
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>

> No it doesn't. You may install one copy period. In the EULA under
> MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA ULTIMATE SERVICE PACK 1 (towards the end of the
> EULA), Section 6 states that the user may install on one virtual machine
> INSTEAD, but NOT in addition to directly on the licensed device.
>
> 6. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. Instead of using the software
> directly on the
> licensed device, you may install and use the software within only one
> virtual (or otherwise emulated)
> hardware system on the licensed device. When used in a virtualized
> environment, content protected
> by digital rights management technology, BitLocker or any full volume disk
> drive encryption
> technology may not be as secure as protected content not in a virtualized
> environment. You should
> comply with all domestic and international laws that apply to such
> protected content.
>
> "Melelina" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>>
>> What version of Vista? Ultimate -both 32 and 64 bit- is allowed to be
>> installed simultaneously on the host and a virtual machine. This is a
>> main reason (the other being downgrade rights) that many folks buy
>> Ultimate instead of another version. It could also be installed on a
>> virtual machine where the host is XP and then installed simultaneously on
>> a second machine (non-virtual). This is assuming a retail version. With
>> OEM Ultimate version theoretically Vista would have to be installed on
>> the host machine and also on a virtual machine on that host machine. But,
>> of course, in reality that is not necessarily the case as you could
>> install on any machine from the same OEM with no problems other your
>> conscience (I am not making light of one's conscience either and if your
>> conscience says you shouldn't then don't).
>>
>> If you are going to use VMWare make sure you have version 6 of
>> Workstation. I have 5.5 and had a severe problem with Vista Ultimate
>> running on it. That is why I got VirtualPC.
>>
>

> >What version of Vista? Ultimate -both 32 and 64 bit- is allowed to be
>>installed simultaneously on the host and a virtual machine.
>
> I don't think that's true Melelina, the only Vista that is allowed
> that may be that way is Vista Enterprise. (With a volume licensing
> agreement.)
> I'd be happy to be proven wrong if you have a link to some Microsoft
> site saying that!
>
> --
> Bob Comer
>
>
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:41:20 -1000, "Melelina" <(email address - cut out)>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>> Very interesting discussion!! Thank you!
>>>
>>> My machine is running on Vista.
>>> Can I go ahead and install VMWare and then Vista on this machine?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Knowledge Worker" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>
>>>> What is the licensing mechanism/policy/strategy for the OS installed in
>>>> the Virtual machine
>>>>
>>>> ref MS, have they provided any discounts or waivers?
>>
>>What version of Vista? Ultimate -both 32 and 64 bit- is allowed to be
>>installed simultaneously on the host and a virtual machine. This is a
>>main
>>reason (the other being downgrade rights) that many folks buy Ultimate
>>instead of another version. It could also be installed on a virtual
>>machine
>>where the host is XP and then installed simultaneously on a second machine
>>(non-virtual). This is assuming a retail version. With OEM Ultimate
>>version
>>theoretically Vista would have to be installed on the host machine and
>>also
>>on a virtual machine on that host machine. But, of course, in reality that
>>is not necessarily the case as you could install on any machine from the
>>same OEM with no problems other your conscience (I am not making light of
>>one's conscience either and if your conscience says you shouldn't then
>>don't).
>>
>>If you are going to use VMWare make sure you have version 6 of
>>Workstation.
>>I have 5.5 and had a severe problem with Vista Ultimate running on it.
>>That
>>is why I got VirtualPC.
>>

>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>> No it doesn't. You may install one copy period. In the EULA under
>> MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA ULTIMATE SERVICE PACK 1 (towards the end of the
>> EULA), Section 6 states that the user may install on one virtual machine
>> INSTEAD, but NOT in addition to directly on the licensed device.
> That is NOT what my Vista Ultimate Eula says. It grants the right to use
> Vista as the Host OS and ALSO to install Vista on a virtual machine
> residing on the host machine.
>
> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software installed
> on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware
> system on the licensed device. If you do so, you may not play or access
> content or use applications protected by any Microsoft digital,
> information or enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft
> rights management services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or
> accessing content or using applications protected by other digital,
> information or enterprise rights management technology or other rights
> management services or using full volume disk drive encryption.
>
> Why are yours and mine different? The Eula I have quoted is the Eula I
> have seen discussed all over the internet in regards to a major reason for
> purchasing Vista Ultimate instead of another version of Vista. I have
> never seen anything about the Eula you have quoted until now.
>
>>
>> 6. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. Instead of using the software
>> directly on the
>> licensed device, you may install and use the software within only one
>> virtual (or otherwise emulated)
>> hardware system on the licensed device. When used in a virtualized
>> environment, content protected
>> by digital rights management technology, BitLocker or any full volume
>> disk drive encryption
>> technology may not be as secure as protected content not in a virtualized
>> environment. You should
>> comply with all domestic and international laws that apply to such
>> protected content.
>>
>> "Melelina" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>
>>>
>>> What version of Vista? Ultimate -both 32 and 64 bit- is allowed to be
>>> installed simultaneously on the host and a virtual machine. This is a
>>> main reason (the other being downgrade rights) that many folks buy
>>> Ultimate instead of another version. It could also be installed on a
>>> virtual machine where the host is XP and then installed simultaneously
>>> on a second machine (non-virtual). This is assuming a retail version.
>>> With OEM Ultimate version theoretically Vista would have to be installed
>>> on the host machine and also on a virtual machine on that host machine.
>>> But, of course, in reality that is not necessarily the case as you could
>>> install on any machine from the same OEM with no problems other your
>>> conscience (I am not making light of one's conscience either and if your
>>> conscience says you shouldn't then don't).
>>>
>>> If you are going to use VMWare make sure you have version 6 of
>>> Workstation. I have 5.5 and had a severe problem with Vista Ultimate
>>> running on it. That is why I got VirtualPC.
>>>
>>
>
>

>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>> No it doesn't. You may install one copy period. In the EULA under
>> MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA ULTIMATE SERVICE PACK 1 (towards the end of the
>> EULA), Section 6 states that the user may install on one virtual machine
>> INSTEAD, but NOT in addition to directly on the licensed device.
>
> That is NOT what my Vista Ultimate Eula says. It grants the right to use
> Vista as the Host OS and ALSO to install Vista on a virtual machine
> residing on the host machine.
>
> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software installed
> on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware
> system on the licensed device. If you do so, you may not play or access
> content or use applications protected by any Microsoft digital,
> information or enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft
> rights management services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or
> accessing content or using applications protected by other digital,
> information or enterprise rights management technology or other rights
> management services or using full volume disk drive encryption.
>
> Why are yours and mine different? The Eula I have quoted is the Eula I
> have seen discussed all over the internet in regards to a major reason for
> purchasing Vista Ultimate instead of another version of Vista. I have
> never seen anything about the Eula you have quoted until now.
>
>>
>> 6. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. Instead of using the software
>> directly on the
>> licensed device, you may install and use the software within only one
>> virtual (or otherwise emulated)
>> hardware system on the licensed device. When used in a virtualized
>> environment, content protected
>> by digital rights management technology, BitLocker or any full volume
>> disk drive encryption
>> technology may not be as secure as protected content not in a virtualized
>> environment. You should
>> comply with all domestic and international laws that apply to such
>> protected content.
>>
>> "Melelina" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>
>>>
>>> What version of Vista? Ultimate -both 32 and 64 bit- is allowed to be
>>> installed simultaneously on the host and a virtual machine. This is a
>>> main reason (the other being downgrade rights) that many folks buy
>>> Ultimate instead of another version. It could also be installed on a
>>> virtual machine where the host is XP and then installed simultaneously
>>> on a second machine (non-virtual). This is assuming a retail version.
>>> With OEM Ultimate version theoretically Vista would have to be installed
>>> on the host machine and also on a virtual machine on that host machine.
>>> But, of course, in reality that is not necessarily the case as you could
>>> install on any machine from the same OEM with no problems other your
>>> conscience (I am not making light of one's conscience either and if your
>>> conscience says you shouldn't then don't).
>>>
>>> If you are going to use VMWare make sure you have version 6 of
>>> Workstation. I have 5.5 and had a severe problem with Vista Ultimate
>>> running on it. That is why I got VirtualPC.
>>>
>>
>
>

>Windows Feedback participants had hoped Microsoft would ship the disks with
>Service Pack 1 but they didn't. Surely Microsoft did not change this clause
>in SP1????
>> That is NOT what my Vista Ultimate Eula says. It grants the right to use
>> Vista as the Host OS and ALSO to install Vista on a virtual machine
>> residing on the host machine.
>> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software installed
>> on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware
>> system on the licensed device.
>I
>> have seen discussed all over the internet in regards to a major reason for
>> purchasing Vista Ultimate instead of another version of Vista.
>
>"Melelina" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>> No it doesn't. You may install one copy period. In the EULA under
>>> MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA ULTIMATE SERVICE PACK 1 (towards the end of the
>>> EULA), Section 6 states that the user may install on one virtual machine
>>> INSTEAD, but NOT in addition to directly on the licensed device.
>
>Ahh...I just noticed you said SERVICE PACK 1. My disk is Vista Ultimate. We
>Windows Feedback participants had hoped Microsoft would ship the disks with
>Service Pack 1 but they didn't. Surely Microsoft did not change this clause
>in SP1????
>
>> That is NOT what my Vista Ultimate Eula says. It grants the right to use
>> Vista as the Host OS and ALSO to install Vista on a virtual machine
>> residing on the host machine.
>>
>> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software installed
>> on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware
>> system on the licensed device. If you do so, you may not play or access
>> content or use applications protected by any Microsoft digital,
>> information or enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft
>> rights management services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or
>> accessing content or using applications protected by other digital,
>> information or enterprise rights management technology or other rights
>> management services or using full volume disk drive encryption.
>>
>> Why are yours and mine different? The Eula I have quoted is the Eula I
>> have seen discussed all over the internet in regards to a major reason for
>> purchasing Vista Ultimate instead of another version of Vista. I have
>> never seen anything about the Eula you have quoted until now.
>>
>>>
>>> 6. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. Instead of using the software
>>> directly on the
>>> licensed device, you may install and use the software within only one
>>> virtual (or otherwise emulated)
>>> hardware system on the licensed device. When used in a virtualized
>>> environment, content protected
>>> by digital rights management technology, BitLocker or any full volume
>>> disk drive encryption
>>> technology may not be as secure as protected content not in a virtualized
>>> environment. You should
>>> comply with all domestic and international laws that apply to such
>>> protected content.
>>>
>>> "Melelina" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What version of Vista? Ultimate -both 32 and 64 bit- is allowed to be
>>>> installed simultaneously on the host and a virtual machine. This is a
>>>> main reason (the other being downgrade rights) that many folks buy
>>>> Ultimate instead of another version. It could also be installed on a
>>>> virtual machine where the host is XP and then installed simultaneously
>>>> on a second machine (non-virtual). This is assuming a retail version.
>>>> With OEM Ultimate version theoretically Vista would have to be installed
>>>> on the host machine and also on a virtual machine on that host machine.
>>>> But, of course, in reality that is not necessarily the case as you could
>>>> install on any machine from the same OEM with no problems other your
>>>> conscience (I am not making light of one's conscience either and if your
>>>> conscience says you shouldn't then don't).
>>>>
>>>> If you are going to use VMWare make sure you have version 6 of
>>>> Workstation. I have 5.5 and had a severe problem with Vista Ultimate
>>>> running on it. That is why I got VirtualPC.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

>Licenses for other products may and sometime do grant the right to
>"overload" a client license but those products are Windows Server products
>(Enterprise and Data Center) and Vista Enterprise (not a retail edition
>anyway).

>>> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software installed
>>> on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware
>>> system on the licensed device.
>
> It doesn't say same license... (No "and ALSO")

>Robert Comer wrote:
>>>> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software installed
>>>> on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware
>>>> system on the licensed device.
>>
>> It doesn't say same license... (No "and ALSO")
>
>I read it that way. You may use it *on* the licensed device *in* a VM *on* the
>device. That clearly implies two simultaneous uses.

> Robert Comer wrote:
>>>> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software
>>>> installed
>>>> on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated)
>>>> hardware
>>>> system on the licensed device.
>>
>> It doesn't say same license... (No "and ALSO")
>
> I read it that way. You may use it *on* the licensed device *in* a VM
> *on* the device. That clearly implies two simultaneous uses.
> --
> .NET: It's About Trust!
> http://vfred.mvps.org
>

> Robert Comer wrote:
>> That's not how Microsoft interprets it.
>>
>
> Then why did Microsoft write the EULA in such a flagrantly ambiguous way?
> They know that licensing in VM's is an area that users often misunderstand
> (or choose to misunderstand).
>
> I have to say that I would read it as
>
> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software <already>
> installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated)
> hardware system <provided that the virtual system is installed> on the
> licensed device.
>
> --
> David Wilkinson
> Visual C++ MVP

> That's not how Microsoft interprets it.
>

>know that licensing in VM's is an area that users often misunderstand (or choose
>to misunderstand).
>I have to say that I would read it as
>Robert Comer wrote:
>> That's not how Microsoft interprets it.
>>
>
>Then why did Microsoft write the EULA in such a flagrantly ambiguous way? They
>know that licensing in VM's is an area that users often misunderstand (or choose
>to misunderstand).
>
>I have to say that I would read it as
>
>Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software <already>
>installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated)
>hardware system <provided that the virtual system is installed> on the licensed
>device.

>Robert Comer wrote:
>>>> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software installed
>>>> on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware
>>>> system on the licensed device.
>>
>> It doesn't say same license... (No "and ALSO")
>
>I read it that way. You may use it *on* the licensed device *in* a VM *on* the
>device. That clearly implies two simultaneous uses.

> In message <(email address - cut out)> "Karl E. Peterson"
> <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
>>Robert Comer wrote:
>>>>> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software
>>>>> installed
>>>>> on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated)
>>>>> hardware
>>>>> system on the licensed device.
>>>
>>> It doesn't say same license... (No "and ALSO")
>>
>>I read it that way. You may use it *on* the licensed device *in* a VM
>>*on* the
>>device. That clearly implies two simultaneous uses.
>
> That's interesting -- I'd say that for an OEM version, that means you
> can use it on the physical hardware OR in a VM.
>
> However, that doesn't seem to exclude the "One copy" rule elsewhere in
> the EULA, so running both at the same time would still be a violation.

>The EULA we have all been quoting is the retail EULA. Its terms and
>conditions do not apply to OEM licenses.

>In message <(email address - cut out)> "Karl E. Peterson"
><(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
>>Robert Comer wrote:
>>>>> Use with Virtualization Technologies. You may use the software installed
>>>>> on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware
>>>>> system on the licensed device.
>>>
>>> It doesn't say same license... (No "and ALSO")
>>
>>I read it that way. You may use it *on* the licensed device *in* a VM *on* the
>>device. That clearly implies two simultaneous uses.
>
>That's interesting -- I'd say that for an OEM version, that means you
>can use it on the physical hardware OR in a VM.
>
>However, that doesn't seem to exclude the "One copy" rule elsewhere in
>the EULA, so running both at the same time would still be a violation.

> "Instead of" makes things a lot clearer. It definitely does not say "In
> addition to using the software directly on the licensed device...."

> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>> "Instead of" makes things a lot clearer. It definitely does not say "In
>> addition to using the software directly on the licensed device...."
>
> Weasels.
> --
> .NET: It's About Trust!
> http://vfred.mvps.org
>

> From "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>, in
> microsoft.public.virtualpc on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:13:55 +0100 :
>
>>"FACE" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>>>>> Does the licensee or does the licensee not have the legal right to run
>>>>> it
>>>>> on one machine and at one time?
>>>>
>>>>The "one instance at one time" rule applies to some application
>>>>software,
>>>>but not to Windows.
>>>
>>> If it does not apply there, what does?
>>
>>A regular Windows licence, generally speaking, allows the copy of Windows
>>to
>>be *installed*
>
>>on one machine (physical or virtual) at any given time.
>
> The word "virtual" does not appear in the Windows XP Professional EULA
>
> END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE
> WINDOWS XP PROFESSIONAL EDITION SERVICE PACK 2
>
> IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY:
> This End-User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement
> between you (either an individual or a single entity) and
> Microsoft Corporation or one of its affiliates ("Microsoft")
> for the Microsoft software that accompanies this EULA, which
> includes computer software and may include associated media,
> printed materials, "online" or electronic documentation, and
> Internet-based services ("Software"). An amendment or
> addendum to this EULA may accompany the Software.
> YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS
> EULA BY INSTALLING, COPYING, OR OTHERWISE
> USING THE SOFTWARE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE,
> DO NOT INSTALL, COPY, OR USE THE SOFTWARE;
> YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE
> FOR A FULL REFUND, IF APPLICABLE.
>
> 1. GRANT OF LICENSE.
> Microsoft grants you the following rights provided that
> you comply with all terms and conditions of this EULA:
>
> 1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
> display and run one copy of the Software on a single
> computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
> device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
> be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
> time on any single Workstation Computer.
>
> 1.2 Mandatory Activation. The license rights granted under
> this EULA are limited to the first thirty (30) days
> after you first install the Software unless you supply
> information required to activate your licensed copy in
> the manner described during the setup sequence of the
> Software. You can activate the Software through the
> use of the Internet or telephone; toll charges may
> apply. You may also need to reactivate the Software
> if you modify your computer hardware or alter the
> Software. There are technological measures in this
> Software that are designed to prevent unlicensed use of
> the Software. Microsoft will use those measures to
> confirm you have a legally licensed copy of the
> Software. If you are not using a licensed copy of the
> Software, you are not allowed to install the Software
> or future Software updates. Microsoft will not collect
> any personally identifiable information from your
> Workstation Computer during this process.
>
> 1.3 Device Connections. You may permit a maximum of
> ten (10) computers or other electronic devices (each
> a "Device") to connect to the Workstation Computer
> to utilize one or more of the following services of
> the Software: File Services, Print Services, Internet
> Information Services, Internet Connection Sharing and
> telephony services. The ten connection maximum includes
> any indirect connections made through "multiplexing" or
> other software or hardware which pools or aggregates
> connections. This ten connection maximum does not
> apply to other uses of the Software, such as
> synchronizing data between a Device and the Workstation
> Computer, provided only one user uses, accesses,
> displays or runs the Software at any one time. This
> Section 1.3 does not grant you rights to access a
> Workstation Computer Session from any Device.
> A "Session" means any use of the Software that
> enables functionality similar to that available to an
> end user who is interacting with the Workstation
> Computer through any combination of input, output and
> display peripherals.
>
> 1.4 Remote Desktop/Remote Assistance/NetMeeting. The
> Software contains Remote Desktop, Remote Assistance,
> and NetMeeting technologies that enable the Software or
> applications installed on the Workstation Computer
> (sometimes referred to as a host device) to be accessed
> remotely from other Devices. You may use the Software's
> Remote Desktop feature (or other software which provides
> similar functionality for a similar purpose) to access a
> Workstation Computer Session from any Device provided
> you acquire a separate Software license for that Device.
> As an exception to this rule, the person who is the
> single primary user of the Workstation Computer may
> access a Workstation Computer Session from any Device
> without acquiring an additional Software license for
> that Device. When you are using Remote Assistance or
> NetMeeting (or other software which provides similar
> functionality for a similar purpose) you may share a
> Session with other users without any limit on the number
> of Device connections and without acquiring additional
> licenses for the Software. For Microsoft and
> non-Microsoft applications, you should consult the
> license agreement accompanying the applicable software
> or contact the applicable licensor to determine whether
> use of the software with Remote Desktop, Remote
> Assistance, or NetMeeting is permitted without an
> additional license.
>
> 1.5 Storage/Network Use. You may also store or install a
> copy of the Software on a storage device, such as a
> network server, used only to install or run the
> Software on your other Workstation Computers over an
> internal network; however, you must acquire and
> dedicate an additional license for each separate
> Workstation Computer on or from which the Software is
> installed, used, accessed, displayed or run. Except
> as otherwise permitted by the NetMeeting and Remote
> Assistance features described above, a license for
> the Software may not be shared or used concurrently
> on different Workstation Computers.
>
> 2. AUTOMATIC INTERNET-BASED SERVICES.
> The Software features described below are enabled by default
> to connect via the Internet to Microsoft computer systems
> automatically, without separate notice to you. You consent
> to the operation of these features, unless you choose to
> switch them off or not use them. Microsoft does not obtain
> personal information through any of these features. For
> more information about these features, please see your
> Software documentation, the Microsoft online support site,
> or the privacy statement at
> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=25243.
>
> 2.1 Windows Update Features. If you connect hardware to
> your Workstation Computer, it may not have the drivers
> needed to communicate with that hardware. The Software's
> update feature can obtain the correct drivers from
> Microsoft and install them on your device. You can
> switch this update feature off.
>
> 2.2 Web Content Features. Under the Software's default
> configuration, if you are connected to the Internet,
> several features of the Software are enabled by default
> to retrieve content from Microsoft computer systems and
> display it to you. When you activate such a feature, it
> uses standard Internet protocols, which transmit the
> type of operating system, browser and language code of
> your Workstation Computer to the Microsoft computer
> system so that the content can be viewed properly from
> your Workstation Computer. These features only operate
> when you activate them, and you may choose to switch
> them off or not use them. Examples of these features
> include Windows Catalog, Search Assistant, and the
> Headlines and Search features of Help and Support
> Center.
>
> 2.3 Digital Certificates. The Software uses digital
> certificates based on the x.509 standard. These digital
> certificates confirm the identity of Internet users
> sending x.509 standard encrypted information. The
> software retrieves certificates and updates certificate
> revocation lists. These security features operate only
> when you use the Internet.
>
>
> An interesting word choice of "Virtual" in "Microsoft Virtual PC 2007"
> A definition starts as...
> Quick definitions (virtual)
> # (a.) Being in essence or effect, not in fact.............
>
> So, though it is that thing or entity in essence, if it is virtual and
> that
> is not mentioned then in fact, it does not really exist..........
>
> Perhaps there have been precedent court cases on this that you may point
> to?
>
> FACE
>
>>If
>>you buy a new machine, you can install your existing copy of Windows on it
>>so long as you remove it from the old machine first...
>>
>>As Bob has mentioned, certain versions of Windows now permit
>>virtualisation
>>of their licence - this is a relatively new phenomenon.
>>
>>Volumne licenses / select agreements are, of course, different.
>>
>>And other licensing options exist. E.g. I have an MSDN subscription which
>>permits me to install most Microsoft products as many times as I like on
>>as
>>many machines as I like as simultaneously as I like so long as my reason
>>for
>>doing so is for development, testing or demonstration purposes...
>

> run one of them at a time.
>
> --
> Daniel Jameson

> You have the right to make backups but there is no licensing principle in
> play here that says, "I can make as many guest copies as I want, as long as
> I only run one of them at a time." I back up my vms but not in runnable
> form. I have the right to maintain the means of disaster recovery but that
> does not mean I can stockpile vms that can just be browsed to with the New
> Virtual Machine wizard and added to the VPC Console list and just run.

> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:45:09 -0600, Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>
>> You have the right to make backups but there is no licensing principle in
>> play here that says, "I can make as many guest copies as I want, as long
>> as
>> I only run one of them at a time." I back up my vms but not in runnable
>> form. I have the right to maintain the means of disaster recovery but
>> that
>> does not mean I can stockpile vms that can just be browsed to with the
>> New
>> Virtual Machine wizard and added to the VPC Console list and just run.
>
> When dealing with Windows Server products this is incorrect. With Windows
> Server products and virtualization licenses are only consumed for running
> virtual machines.
> --
> Paul Adare
> MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager
> http://www.identit.ca
> HOST SYSTEM NOT RESPONDING, PROBABLY DOWN. DO YOU WANT TO WAIT? (Y/N)

>By your logic dual booting with the same Windows license on multiple
>partitions would be OK "as long as I only run one of them at a time."

>On 10/07/2008 in message
><(email address - cut out)> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>
>>By your logic dual booting with the same Windows license on multiple
>>partitions would be OK "as long as I only run one of them at a time."
>
>I have a colleague who does this - she spoke to MSFT on the 'phone who
>confirmed it was fine as long as only one could run at a time. She uses
>one as her main machine and the other as a test box.